Conversations

By Traci Hubbard

First date conversations are important for gaining understanding around the person which will inform us if we want a second date. Here is an example:

 One person asks: “What do you do for a living?”

The other person answers: “I work with animals every day!” 

“Oh how sweet! What is it that you do?” 

“I’m a butcher.”

 Asking open ended questions for depth and clarification are important.

There is a saying: “Experience is the best teacher… but sometimes it gives the test before the lesson.” If that is true, then some of us are basically walking encyclopedias by now. But as humans, we do not just look back to the past with nostalgia, nor do we leap into the future blindly. We walk with Jesus, the One who stands in both places, the Holder of what was, the Holder of what is, and the Holder of what will be.

A friend once told me about his grandmother who grew up in the Great Depression. She had a habit of saving everything—wrapping paper, plastic bags, twist ties, margarine containers. He said that when she died, they found 87 Cool Whip containers in her house. Eighty-seven. Apparently, she was preparing for the Cool Whip apocalypse.

But do you know what? Her habits were not silly—they were wisdom formed by experience. She knew what it meant to endure, to value, to make do. And even though her grandkids did not start hoarding margarine containers, they inherited something deeper: gratitude, resourcefulness, resilience. The past gives us wisdom—not always practices to repeat, but values to carry forward.

Folks, it is important for the church to be ROOTED BUT NOT FROZEN. Humans sometimes get stuck in one of two extremes: “Back in my day…” — We treat the past as perfect. Or “Everything old is useless!” — We treat the past as irrelevant. But the Kingdom of LOVE and social justice calls us to something better: To listen deeply to wisdom from the past while allowing the Holy Spirit to lead us into a new future. Jesus did not come to fossilize traditions—He came to fulfill them and transform them.

A minister told me a story about trying to renovate their church kitchen. One group wanted stainless steel appliances. Another group wanted nothing to change because “the stove Moses used was good enough for us.” He said the debate became heated they could have cooked a casserole on the tension alone. Finally, an eighty-five-year-old lady stood up, and everyone braced themselves. She proceeded to say, “Listen. When I was young, we cooked on wood stoves. Do I want to go back? Absolutely not. But do not forget—the reason we cooked was to feed people. So, whatever helps us feed people best… let us do that.” You could have heard a pin dropping to the floor. Silence surrounded us. Then people began nodding in agreement. Then progress was born. Wisdom from the past… vision for the future… centers on the intention and ways of Jesus.

We listen to the conversation of the disciples on the road to Emmaus and learn that they were trapped in the past:

We read, “We had hoped…” and they “Thought Jesus would…” do things differently. Their expectations were nailed to what used to be. But then Jesus shows up walking beside them, unpacking ancient Scripture, reframing the past so they could walk faithfully into the future. He did not erase their history. He reinterpreted it in light of resurrection. As Richard Rohr teaches, Jesus used the teaching theory “Order, Disorder, and Reordering.”

And this is the teaching modality the Spirit still uses with us. Wisdom, Sophia, the Spirit, does not waste our past, but she also does not let it limit our future.

If you have ever used a GPS, you know that sometimes it tells you, “Turn left.” But you cannot because there is a lake on your left. And then it calmly says, “Recalculating…”

Friends, wisdom from the past is like a map. And the ways of Jesus are our GPS. Only the Spirit knows every construction zone, every detour, every pothole, and every place where our past said “impossible,” but the Spirit tells us that a “new route available.”

Years ago, a mom told me she had taken her daughter to a traditional church service. The congregation began singing an old hymn. Her daughter whispered loudly, “Mom, this is a brand-new song! I have never heard it before!” I laughed but then I realized, what is old to one generation is new to another. What matters is whether it leads us to embrace and transform into the ways of Jesus.

Folks, our job is not to preserve a museum. Our responsibility is to pass on a faith that is alive and evolving. So, what does it look like for us as individuals, and us as a congregation to move forward wisely? I believe we need to be engaging in conversations around how to honor the past without idolizing it. We need to treasure the stories and learn the lessons of our ancestors. And we need to make decisions around our values of faith, courageous social justice, sincere humility, and outrageous generosity.

I believe we need to allow Jesus to reframe our personal and collective past. This creates space for our mistakes to become stories of evidence that the Spirit of the Divine has been and continues to be with us. When we reframe our personal and collective past, our wounds become wisdom and our failures become formation and as these new ways of thinking and being formulate new pathways, we are able to step boldly into the future.

The energy of the Holy is still creating, still reshaping, still surprising, and still calling us into something new. Jerusalem and Zion, the land, the place hoped for, co-exist to help us create a NEW THING WITH OLD ROOTS.

The Kingdom of God, of LOVE, is like a tree with Roots deep in the ancient story of YHWH – BREATH. Each one of us are branches reaching toward a sky of possibility. Each one of us are Fruits of the Spirit who nourish ourselves, others, and our world today.

We need to let go of dualistic thinking and embrace the paradox of past and future so they can inform one another and work together for the highest good of all. We are formed by where we have come from, and we are transformed by where the Spirit is leading us.

As Paul wrote to the church ion Rome, “Everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.”

And then he prays for them saying, “May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had, so that with one mind and one voice you will create a harmony that will transform you and through your personal and collective transformations, change the world into loving, safe, and just place to become evolved humans with courageous and loving BE-ATTITUDES in all our conversations. Maybe a starting place is having a conversation around hoarding too many cool whip cartons.

I want to end with a story about two blondes having a conversation outside at midnight.

Blonde 1: What do you think is closer, Paris or the Moon?

Blonde 2: Are you stupid? Can you see Paris from here?

We need to be intentional about the content in our conversations because we never know where a conversation may free us to become more than who we are.

May it be so, amen.